Curse

GWGuru · Nov 11, 2005, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crusnik

The GW team really mested the game up now.

They are constantly whining about making the game fair for beginning players and players that have already 4 characters. Now all they did was nerf like almost everything. People that start playing Guild Wars now will not even have a chance to get like 15k armor in a year! and why is that? Cause some genius had an idea that defies all logic. Enemy's that run AWAY from people that play the game. HAVE U EVER heard something more moronotic then an idea like that? Enemy's are supposed to like and want to kill the player as much as possible. Not think for themselfs like" Oh no they are casting an aoe skill LET'S RUN FOR OUR LIVES" and then the player is gonna chace the enemy's. it doesn't make any sense at all.

No...Intelligent enemies will position themselves in the most appropriate way to take your team down with limited to no casualties on their side. This happens in every war/battle/confrontation known to man kind. Just because you became accustomed to the AI mobs standing mindlessly in your firestorm doesn't mean it's "what enemies should want to do". Your argument contradicts itself. You explain that enemies should want and like to kill as much as possible...then go on to complain that they move away from your AoE damage...are they killing anything if they're getting torn up by the echo nuker in your group??

[QUOTEAlso the economy wont be stable anymore prices of like Green Items will skyrocket the same with ecto and Obsidian Shards. The game is nothing that comes close to fair at this moment.[/QUOTE]

no...those of us that aren't retarded will continue to bring weapons/runes/items/upgrades into the economy. The game is about adapting to your setting...so go on lemming...adapt

Quote:

With this update they practicly just can delete the profession Elementalist. I'm basicly really supprised that some bonehead of the team didn't got an idea like that.

I'm fairly new to the game and I've never played an elementalist through PvE but I'm quite certain fire is only 1 of the 4 elements the elementalist has control over...try switching to water/air/earth...yanno a snare or two would allow you to echo nuke again.

[QUOTE]I understand that the GW craw wants to make people play gvg/pvp and less pve but there are more effective ways of doing that and not nerfing the whole freaking pve thing. Even Monsters in missions are running away like crazy! And then again. Some people like to just play pve and not the whole bullshit about pvp or gvg and that stuff. Those people just like almost lost there money they spended on this game.[QUOTE]

how does ease of play equal fun...for me it's more fun to have to try. It's more fun to have to think. For 50 dollars you've been given a game that's free of monthly charges and ever changing. You've got an ever changing environment in which monsters are constantly getting smarter and skills are constantly becoming more balanced. You'd think this would be a good thing...Farming(be serious..that's the reason you're pissed. You found some cookie cutter build on the internet that no longer works for farming and it pisses you off) is still quite possible..and very very simple. Go on lemming...adapt

Quote:

So I think the GW team really need to nerf there heads instead of this game cause the logic they have at the moment makes no sense at all.

I'm not going to go as far as saying that I think the ArenaNet team is doing a great job. I think often times they are late on updates/patches that should have been simpler to implement. I also believe they blow a lot of smoke up our asses....but guess what, that's what gaming companies do. ArenaNet is doing a fine job. Stop blaiming the company for your shortcomings as a player.

Mysterial · Nov 11, 2005, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by yslee

Suggesting Snares as a solution is merely crippling the Elementalist even more. Let's consider a 15 fire 11 energy and 11 water setup. Deep Freeze...

Why on earth would you take 11 water for a spell that snares for 10 seconds no matter how much water magic you have?

yslee · Nov 11, 2005, 04:20 PM // 16:20

So instead of having Fire AoE we get Air Spiking. Diversity is not caused by rendering an entire line of spells useless!

By the way, I don't enjoy air spiking. If anything I think it's more mindless than Fire AoE. So don't tell me how I "should" play the game!

jasondragon · Nov 11, 2005, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbca

I find it really funnny how many people have cried out that monsters running from AOE is a bad thing. If they throw an AOE skill onto you, what do you do? You get out from under it! Now why shouldnt the computer have the potential to be as inteligent as you?

I think the biggest problem I have with this statement is, no one was complaining that they didn't move. Now that the AI RUNS from AoE, people complain and you others jump out and say stop complaining!

Guess my point is no one prior to this was arguing WHY do the monsters STAY in my AoE spells? Are they idiots?

But now there are people who don't like this change, and people who want to yell at those of us who hate this new AoE running strategy the mobs have.

Sekkira · Nov 11, 2005, 04:22 PM // 16:22

The problem being is that it rendered an entire attribute line useless and actually dangerous to your team if used in order to show people other ways of doing things. Telling them that they can't have their pie they are eating at the moment because they have to eat something else.

I don't have a problem with them making the PvE game more challenging, I don't have a problem with making things harder by making the Monsters smarter. I do have a problem, however, with killing a whole attribute line in order to do so.

jibikao · Nov 11, 2005, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdis

Lets think about what you just said..."running just got easier". OK, since running is sooo easy now....what the hell makes you think somebody is going to PAY you to do something they can do on thier own?????

Paying for runners I believe is one thing they don't like.

If you choose to run and not kill monsters, that's your business. But paying for runners not only give you advantage but also give the runners a chance to ruin the economy.

I am sure they'll figure out a way to counter runners later. At this moment, I don't think the update RUINS the game like many have suggested.

AncientPC · Nov 11, 2005, 04:24 PM // 16:24

People probably can adapt and find a new effective farming build if they wanted to, but the truth of the matter is they (and I) don't want to change. I like my characters how they are and I don't want to have to change them every 3-6 months because A.net decides to nerf something.

PvE is meant for mindless mob killing. You can make it more difficult on yourself by imposing party number restrictions like 3 man SF farming or solo UW farming. If I wanted a challenge I'd be playing PvP. I don't want PvE to play like PvP.

Loch · Nov 11, 2005, 04:26 PM // 16:26

By changing the AI like this, people now have an actual reason to bring snares to PvE. I tried playing Water a while back, and found it did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Warriors held aggro, enemies never moved from them, and it was more effective to nuke the whole stupid group of enemies.

Now what can you do? Well, if things get bad, you can always snare and run away. They won't chase you forever anymore, remember?

yeaitsjim · Nov 11, 2005, 04:26 PM // 16:26

The people who make the calls have completely restructured the entire game under the guise of a "minor" update. You may say this statement is extreme but think about it - literally - and it really annoys me - because the AI is not more intelligent - its actually the opposite - now they are just plain RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing dumb and 100% eratic. Even PEOPLE are PREDICTABLE. PvP is far easier than this...and I have to waste more time in killing them -

and this is in a party of 8 mind you...I'm not even referring to soloing...to me it just doesnt make any sense to me that these battle hardened monsters (that are hard as anything to kill anyway - scenario - GIANT STOMP, and the herders run around evading AoEs and still stomp none the less....humm stop and ULTIMATE AOE...monster ONLY mind you, that humm you can't run from....OH WAIT this balanced the game right... balanced real fair now....AFTER EVERYONE who has BOTS or whatever that ALREADY have 100s of shards and ecto, and the SAME people that already have 10 of each "rare" green items...oh wait they don't care it doesn't HURT them... but the little guys i.e. the rest of us that actually physically control our characters and go to UW, and Sorrows Furnace FOR FUN with 5 of our friends, now that's gone, you know its not about the drops sometimes - its about having some fun... and this is just NOT FUN.

How many of us have every fire skill? How many of us are smiters? I have 4 characters a W/Mo, and Mo/Me, E/Me, and R/Mo, its like I and MANY, MANY others have invested SO much time in creating our characters, getting all the elite skills, obtaining our 15k aestic armor, and now.... now... we get this... its like I wish I could just LAN this game without having to worry about these changing the whole game when I log on...

When I READ the update - I said to myself "cool, that pretty neat, cause I mean who would sit in a firestorm for 5 mins?" HOWEVER, the application of this particular is like this: AI's thought (they do know everything before hand mind you) enemy clicked on his firestorm skill run 50 ft back. Energy to you -15, humm maybe we can get clever and cast smite hex on our fellow warrior friend up there with the high armor doing the warrior things... Go warrior go, wait, where are the "Evil stone summit going... I was merely removing a hex from my friend there....", poof theyre gone, 20 mins later...and a whole lot of wasted time - they are finally dead - it's not harder its just dumber lol AoEs *sighs* Thank god Oblivion's coming out.

You see, I personally hate the fact that you have to do the following in several situations - you must get 8 individuals - and form a build amongst yourselves to conqore your foes in mortal combat cool! Current guild wars application and why this update is stupid - player 6 gets no items and drops, player 7 has to go do "homework", player 3 has to go kill himself, player 4 is convinced that there is no hope and disconnects too - so now here I am, with 4 party members....wow...this is reminicent of whats that sorrows runs... huh? now the 4 of us have put in say an hour up to this point, and ....now we are not UNABLE to complete our goal...hummm well at least now we are forced to NEVER play because its so hard to get a full party of intelligent people. In all my UW runs, I have to say that the finest players are those that can solo UW, and CAN do SF runs, but PREFER to go in a party. And sadly, all this is now ruined because now you need the extra 3 people to chase after youre enemies, while the attaxes kill your monks.

FAIR? Balanced? Logical? I think not. That's all. Good bye guild wars, to think if you would just stop around with the coding, and leave it as is this silly bs would never happen, its this supid stuff that makes me never want to play the game again...

quickmonty · Nov 11, 2005, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Some general observations after reading this thread.

1) In general (not all) PvP players like this change and PvE players don't.
2) A lot of the comments are about changing the way you play and changing the makeup of groups. Why not just make a new game incorporating all these changes and leave this one alone?

Yes, I am primarily a PvE player and have spent a lot of time tweaking builds on my various characters and making changes to suit different circumstances. I've played around with air, water and earth and always come back to fire for the best support for my team mates. I am a casual player and I really don't have the time to be adjusting my builds to suit constant changes and up?grades. Many of you might reply "good ridance" if I decide to leave the game, but all those who think like me and decline to purchase a second account or future chapters will effect the future of GW as I am sure that they need that revenue to continue providing an online game that does not require a monthly fee.

Please take the time to provide thoughtful responses and not attack others for their points of view.

Peace

jibikao · Nov 11, 2005, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

The problem being is that it rendered an entire attribute line useless and actually dangerous to your team if used in order to show people other ways of doing things. Telling them that they can't have their pie they are eating at the moment because they have to eat something else.

I don't have a problem with them making the PvE game more challenging, I don't have a problem with making things harder by making the Monsters smarter. I do have a problem, however, with killing a whole attribute line in order to do so.

There are many more spells in Fire line. I'll have to test it out tonight to see if it is completely useless because before fire line was nerfed, I know many other skill lines are "ignored": Mesmer's Inspiration, Ranger's Beast Mastery.

Elementalist still has Lightning, Water and Earth. Mix things a little bit because water + fire can be a deadly combination. Now the monsters would run when they see aoe, snare them first and aoe them with fire spells. That way not only you damage them, but they also don't damage you (unlike before). That's how "tank" came about. Because monsters would just keep attacking the soft target and thus force us to invent "tankers" and rely so much on healers.

We have more ways to counter monsters IMO. The game may get a bit harder but isn't this what people want? Do you honest thinkg "nuker, tanker, healer" is a good way to enjoy PvE?

mishop · Nov 11, 2005, 04:28 PM // 16:28

I see a lot of people in this post claiming that AOE has been nerfed. From trying it out, I have not found that to be the case. Thunderhead is now much easier for fire eles.

yslee · Nov 11, 2005, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysterial

Why on earth would you take 11 water for a spell that snares for 10 seconds no matter how much water magic you have?

To do some damage? Errm, if not, it'll take an ele anywhere from 6 to 8 seconds before he deals ANY kind of significant damage. Having 1 snare seems insufficent; furthermore don't the slowdowns stack? Of course my argument that one is getting diminishing returns as one tries to make Fire AoE viable still stands.

I'll probably retool my ele into something else, but it is sad that I won't be able to use fire with the way it is intended to be used (ie. the spirit of which the spell was designed for is now gone). Instead of being the primary damage dealer it is now an mob scatterer. It is wrong on so many levels I think it'll take me an age to explain them all.

Blu Vein · Nov 11, 2005, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibikao

Lightning element is a good choice. Earth can be good too. Water has many good snares to help the party but it's not THE only way. There are trappers, interrupters and many other useful builds.

You are correct there are plenty of other combinations. These combintions will be created and new "cookie cutter" builds will be published. But I believe your missing the largest complaint that I see and that is they have effectively trashed an ENTIRE line of skills. Unless they make it so that AoE skills like Meoter Shower can be casted on just and area that than a targeted foe. (Which would allow nukers to sorta trap a group by sorounding then with nuked areas) They might as well just take the whole fire line out of the game.

PieXags · Nov 11, 2005, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Awesome, another update gone by and still no updated 15k tormentors set. How long as it been now? I lost track of the months.

Santanus_Perro · Nov 11, 2005, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by id0l

Great for spikers. Why should players be FORCED to switch playing styles?

Because a fluid game means unpredictability, which means replay value. A good player adapts their playing style to be successful. PvP players do it constantly as trends emerge. Why shouldn't PvE players learn to adapt too?

By the way, my ele/me was kicking butt last night with aoe spells.

FrogDevourer · Nov 11, 2005, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

But in a game built on strategy and teamwork, like Guild Wars, it simply doesn't seem to me that it's reasonable to ask to play the highest end content as a solo player.

I'm sorry but I wholeheartedly disagree on the impact of this update.

I just did a few runs with my farming builds. They kind of confirmed the new update is somewhat stupid. The original idea (making monsters/henchmen more intelligent) was good but the results are very poor. You can still solo-farm quite easily. It takes a little more time due to the running back and forth, but when the enemy group is large enough it doesn't matter, and you're generally safer (as you're not constantly attacked). On the contrary, teamplay has been strongly affected by the update because the whole tanking+nuking concept is now partly obsolete.

Worst of all, you can now control the aggro if you spam AoE while solo-farming. When your hp level is a little low, you just need a quick AoE, and the monsters will run away and give you a few seconds of regeneration time. Get 15/20 griffons around you and switch on zealot's fire and it looks like a comedy movie.

So the update didn't upgrade the monsters AI. They're still stupid, but in a different way. The idea behind the update was good but the result is disappointing. Not only the running away doesn't stop farming, but it drastically affects many AoE spells which haven't been buffed in return.

No offense intended but the core of the problem (farming + a couple of overpowered skills) should have been addressed by a skill or monster update. SF farming was perfectly fine, and adding monsters, or elemental immunity could have made it harder. As for solo farming, adding disenchanters/snares/DoT (+stance breaking) in popular farming places would have killed 90% of solo farmers.

Instead ANet chose to implement a huge patch that will hardly affect the players who exploited the old flaws. We'll find/copy new optimized farming builds in a few days. But at the same time, the patch overkilled AoE. We'll lose many AoE spells (and more generally the AoE effect) in the process, or even worse, we'll exploit AoE to control the new stupid AI by triggering its running (such as with a dumb fireball).

As for beginners, I sympathize with their lack of experience and their inability to adapt.

jonnybegood · Nov 11, 2005, 04:33 PM // 16:33

wow this is obserd , i see over 1000 posts by the end of the day.

jibikao · Nov 11, 2005, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Some general observations after reading this thread.

1) In general (not all) PvP players like this change and PvE players don't.
2) A lot of the comments are about changing the way you play and changing the makeup of groups. Why not just make a new game incorporating all these changes and leave this one alone?

Yes, I am primarily a PvE player and have spent a lot of time tweaking builds on my various characters and making changes to suit different circumstances. I've played around with air, water and earth and always come back to fire for the best support for my team mates. I am a casual player and I really don't have the time to be adjusting my builds to suit constant changes and up?grades. Many of you might reply "good ridance" if I decide to leave the game, but all those who think like me and decline to purchase a second account or future chapters will effect the future of GW as I am sure that they need that revenue to continue providing an online game that does not require a monthly fee.

Please take the time to provide thoughtful responses and not attack others for their points of view.

Peace

Don't worry, I am sure anet welcomes all kinds of responses to their updates and they will make many more! That's why I like Guild Wars. When is the last time Diablo was update??? YEARS??? lol

If they think this new change ruins the game, I am sure they'll fix it. Don't give it up yet.

Having said that, I actually give up PvE to do PvP now JUST BECAUSE of this "nuker, healer, tank" thing. I find it extremely boring and prejudice. I am a ranger beast master myself and I can tell you it's not easy to find a group. This will give mesmer/necro/ranger primary more chances to join groups now.

I know it takes a lot of time to build a new PvE character but the new change does not ruin the WHOLE class. Elementalist still has other spells, Warrior can now focus more on interruption/damage rather than just "tanking". Monks now may have a chance to heal less because of this "tanking" philosophy. Fire elementalist can use aoe spells to save the team. Why don't people think of that?

quickmonty · Nov 11, 2005, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santanus_Perro

Because a fluid game means unpredictability, which means replay value. A good player adapts their playing style to be successful. PvP players do it constantly as trends emerge. Why shouldn't PvE players learn to adapt too?
By the way, my ele/me was kicking butt last night with aoe spells.

Because we chose to play the game differently! Would you want to "adapt" your playing style to be the same as a PvE player? Think!